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But it is not so great when these wonderful, hard-working, idealistic young people are taken advantage of by a hard-core capitalist organisation that actually demands money off them just to be allowed to go out fundraising!! (finally found somewhere I could use your neat expression, Chris. It suits Tvind perfectly!) Volunteer for the Peace Corps, the Red Cross or almost ANY other charity organistaion instead of Tvind!

*<:-)

It is great that people from all place come together at a school in Denmark training for Africa!!!

Quite a unique opportunity

Danish Student: I agree with the previous poster. Get out and take as many of your fellow students with you as you can. Find a place to get back in balance with yourself again, a place in the real world, give yourself some time to think it all out (what was good, what was bad and what was ugly about what happened to you -- at some distance)... Then decide what was "shite" and what was truth about this site. Don't waste your energies, your time and your "fire"! Don't allow them to ruin you for the good work you could be doing in the world -- find some other way to help! There are other programs out there... why does it have to be this one you're stuck in ?-- If they're not living up to their side of the bargain, not giving you what they promised you they would, yet demanding that you give, give, give to their agenda, with nothing in return... why on earth would you give them another minute? ... Do you think it's going to get better? Hasn't happened yet... Hey, they've already got your money, chalk that up to a learning experience -- scam artists always say, "never give a sucker an even break." They don't care about the fact that you paid that in good faith...all they care about is that it's in their bank accounts ready to invest in some other scam... Get out!

 

Hi Danish Student!

Get out and take as many of your friends with you as you can! Good luck!

Here there student in Denmark.

*The money situation shouldn't be to difficult to find out. Ask the Principal to hold a presentation about it. *About the Chaos. I suggest you sit down and meet to find out how it could be improved and how your school could be better organized. *About not learning anything from your teacher. Try to define what it is the teacher should teach you and meet with him/her and the staff about that.

Many have been in the same situation as you. Some have chosen to quite, other have chosen to work together to make it into someting good.

I suggest that last and that you do not mix up the situation at your school with some people "crying" Brainwash, cult and cheating with money!

Im currently a student in one of the schools in Denmark. You have too much shite on your page but also too much truth. Im concidering jumping of because: The costs are extremly high and you can not get information about where the money goes...Money talks and is moore important to the drh than anything else...There is no organisation of the school, its a chaos...We clean, cook and clean and I learn nothing from my teachers and so on and so on...I really want to Africa and to help but the fire I had in me gets no fuel here only water...And about 80 % of the students agree on this. Maybe Ill write moore when I have quit...Soo many student and no fire left.

Hi Chris!

"...I have to agree that yes 20-30 stories does not make a majority..."

- I have personally never seen any figures relating to how many Tvind students are dissatisfied with their stays at the schools. In my own experience I know only 3 people that have been students at the schools, all of them hated it.

"...the US government has suported far more lethal and evil people than Tvind, even our dear Thai government financially supported the Khmer Rouge, right wing killers in the 70's and other less high profile groups..."

- But that doesn't make supporting mass murdering dictatorships right, does it?

"Denmark is (...) still a hard core Capitalist country."

- This one almost caused me to laugh out loud hysterically!;) Anyway, trust me on this: Denmark is anything BUT a hard core capitalist country! We have the highest taxes in the world, a completely unionized labour force and as you mention, a very comprehensive social welfare system.

yours, *<:-)

 

TVIND THREATENS COURT WITNESS (from jp) Tvind has launched a counterattack in the case against the so-called humanitarian trust. One crown witness, Hans la Cour is being threatened with legal proceedings, former members of the teachers group are pressured into signing declarations of support and critical statements made by Tommy Christensen have been brought before the National Council of Lawyers. more details in Danish at: http://www.jp.dk/dbp/internetavisen/indland/artikel&art_id=3533608

Hi Chris, This is a cheap shot but what the hell. :) So the foreign policy of US government is now the standard by which we should judge Tvind? I think you have finally found a topic that everyone can disagree with.....Cheers....Lars

Hi *<:-D

While "haha" does seem to be a bit derailed I have to agree that yes 20-30 stories does not make a majority. It makes a majority here as this site has a 100% bias towards only showing anything and everything it can show to be against Tvind regardless of whether such items are true or totally without proof.

"Tvind doesn't allow people to get married and have kids"...erm, sorry I'll debunk that now, the headteacher of DIE Tvind Bore and his wife Birgide had a baby girl while I was working there, I think their daughters name was Lisa...though I profess I can't remember for sure

The Danish government has always been against Tvind, has never liked the education system they devised nor their support for organizations such as SWAPO, ANC and so forth, nor it's general leanings towards communism. To have such a strong organization in ones back garden does tend to provoke a government to act. Seeing it from the governments point of view "Communist organization educating the Danish youth"...hmmmmm, as social welfare organized as Denmark is, it's still a hard core Capitilist country.

Interesting that you list governments that Tvind is said to have supported, the US government has suported far more lethal and evil people than Tvind, even our dear Thai government financially supported the Khmer Rouge, right wing killers in the 70's and other less high profile groups.

cheers

Chris

Oh, God, *<:), PLEASE don't wish all those soon-to-be deported TG bigwigs on all us innocents overseas! WE DON'T WANT THEM HERE! I sympathise,though, it's sort of like the issue of toxic waste...what to do with it.

Peace, love and rock&roll...and FREEEEDOMMMMM! Yesss.

Hippiechick

oops sorry, Pia Kjaergaard got twenty-some SEATS in parliament, not twenty-some % of the popular vote, (thank god!), I think she got something like 12% of the vote. *<:-)

hey haha

I am quite flattered that an actual real live Tvindie took time out of his busy schedule to respond to my post! Just have a couple of questions for you:

"...Tvind equips all their schools with WORKING computers..." Since when do home built 386'ers qualify as working computers?! ;)

"sounds a little bit like afghanistan where the "evidence" of the attack is was Bin Laden wouldn`t last long in a courtoom.. instead america declares war. " Well what do you know? A Tvindie who is pro-Taleban? Not that I'm surprised really... It is a quite natural progression from supporting Robert Mugabe, the Khmer Rouge and throwing a party for the late great North Korean dictator, Kim. Maybe you should actually go live with the some of these people for a while, I understand that they too are great champions of your versions of "democracy and freedom"

Oh yeah, you also seemed to mention that (I) am so brainwashed, maan That coming from a man who obviously believes that the racist Danish government is in a grand conspiracy with the entire Scandinavian media, with a bit of help from the French national assembly declaring Tvind a cult, all aimed at making little Amdi cry.

By the way, until Pia Kjaersgaard got 20-some percent of the votes a couple of weeks ago we actually in the very elite when it comes to being humainst. Just ask the UN, that shouldnt be tough, all your websites link to them anyway, implying that they somehow support your operations, right?

In a few years time, when good ole Jens, the sheriff of Holstebro or someone else shuts you guys down for good, you will stand there all alone, with all the important TG members in jail or hiding out overseas, watching all your ideals come crashing down around you and wonder where your youth and your life went. Do yourself a favour, get out now before its too late!

Yours, *<:-)

PS: Calling yourself hippies is truly an insult to hippies everywhere!!

beware of Aids! use a condom!

Fuck you danmark rulez

yes, very nice answer!!!straight out!

 

Sure, long live Pia kaersgaard, she's so humanistic... haha, Denmark democratic, give me a break man.

 

"Unfortunately, judging from the stories of a lot of people out there, this seems to be the exception rather than the rule."

haha, so ridicolous, how many stories are there here? 20-30, out of 50 000 students that has passed through the tvind schools... that`s really the majority that has had a bad experience

Give me evidence about the workers being treated like slaves, and I don`t mean Extrabladet (the really objective professional newspaper haha)

I`m not allowed to marry anyone I want, damn man, where are you from, not from this world I guess

can you please provide me with that record, not the rumorbased "Tvind is under investigation" record, but all cases where we actually has been convicted.

"somehow end up being used on luxury apartments in Miami Beach, luxury Mercedes SUVs and the like."

Give me the evidence, that those money are from founds meant for problematic kids or development aid. You know the teachers group has a lot of money, and what we do with OUR money (not humanas, not adpp, not planet aid, not the small schools but OUR money) has nothing to do with you

Why do I think that the government passed a law against us.

Well, some old hippies in the middle of nowhere in western jyttland aint no threat, when those hippies build the worlds biggest windmill and seriously threatens the plans of nuclear power, we started being a threat. When we remind the government of their own faults and failures with taking care of problematic kids, they see it as offensive, When Tvind equips all their schools with WORKING computers for a very small amount of money and the socialist danish government spends 100 million and fails, some people gets pissed of..

The law that was passed was breaking the ground law in Denmark, and the minister of education when asked said "The reason I declare this law is that I know I can`t win in a courtoom"

sounds a little bit like afghanistan where the "evidence" of the attack is was Bin Laden wouldn`t last long in a courtoom.. instead america declares war.

LONG LIVE DEMOCRACY AND FREEDOM!!

 

haha

 

you are so brainwashed man

 

Chris,

I am glad that your Tvind experience was so positive. Unfortunately, judging from the stories of a lot of people out there, this seems to be the exception rather than the rule.

Be that as it may, even if every single Tvind student did have a great time at the schools, even if the Latin American Tvind plantation workers did not work under slave-like conditions, even if Tvind teachers were free to marry and have children with anyone they choose, even that does not change the fact that Tvind has a very faulty record when it comes to managing public money entrusted to it. And as a Danish taxpayer, that causes me concern.

Through a complex network of trusts, holding companies, and offshore bank accounts, public education and charity funds that are supposed to be used respectively for educating "problem kids" and helping the people of the third world somehow end up being used on luxury apartments in Miami Beach, luxury Mercedes SUVs and the like.

Why do you think that the then socialist-dominated Danish PARLIAMENT actually passed a law a few years ago whose sole purpose was to try and eliminate Tvind? They just didn't have anything better to do that day? Why would a country, regarded as one of the most humanist and democratic in the world suddenly attempt to BAN a so-called legitimate charity organisation like Tvind? Could there perhaps be a reason for this?

cheers, *<:-D

Hi Nameless Smiley " *<:-D "

>obviously intelligent man

This has not yet been proven but thanks anyway :)

Anyway........

I don't know Amdi, have never met him and to the best of my knowledge have not said anything for or against him. My views are based only upon experiences I have had and comparisons of the similar schools. And as I have said before, Tvind is not perfect, but who is and many things could be better...BUT with all things considered, Tvind still do excellent work in Africa, give great "experience based" education and gave me an excellent 4 years of work, adventure and travel.

Cheers

Chris

Chris,

How can an obviously intelligent man like yourself find it in his heart to defend the likes of Mogens Amdi Petersen and his cronies? You are a bigger man than I.

*<:-D

Taking action when it's needed

By Anders Svensson.

As a teacher - a leader - a social worker - it is important to be welcoming and always ready. Just think of this situation: 20 kids in a class room and just one teacher. It is the teachers task to make sure that each student get the help needed. And it is the teachers task to notice the kids so they are never bored. The ones who are about to give up must be encouraged, and the ones who look unhappy comforted. It is your job to reach each single student. It really is. Regardless whether you like them or not. It is your task  to treat the most unlikeable kid with respect. You have to teach yourself how - or get someone more experienced to help you if you find it difficult. It is also the teachers task to be the entrepreneur, who is not afraid of starting something new, even though she is not sure how it will all end. What for? Is that in your job description as a teacher? Isn't teaching about delivering the curriculum? I have known a couple of teachers who worked pretty hard the first couple of years, went through the same curriculum over and over again - and they would know it by heart. After a couple of years they knew the sentences the students would perhaps rephrase slightly the next twenty years - nothing would ever be unknown. Everything would be as it always used to be. This kind of teacher is not an entrepreneur. Guess what! The world changes all the time and it is the teachers task to teach his students to be part of these changes. Stress fills the everyday life of many people and this stress is often caused by the fear of changes because teachers - and people in general - are not trained to change. It is important that the teacher trains his students to face unforeseen situations and teach them to solve the problems they are facing. Just 20 years ago everything was much more simple. The world of work was not very complicated The handicraft mans job was simple - when the fundamental tools were known and he could handle them easily. The baker became a good baker, the carpenter could saw and hammer .... this has changed. Today the carpenter has to figure it all out as well, he has to read the architects drawings and the manual. Tasks, that are not very simple. All of us who have tried to assemble 27 pieces of wood and 35 screws into an IKEA shelf know what I am talking about. These tasks are getting more and more complicated and the teacher has to make his students capable of solving increasinlgy complex problems. In theory we can agree on these questions. But in practice things are often different. We are not educated to use - or equipped with - the tools that are needed to solve the problems. That is why we avoid situations where problems are likely to occur. That is why we often try to avoid the conflicts instead of meeting them head-on - experiencing them and using them in order to jump to a new and better level. At DNS we train our teacher students to detect, analyse and solve conflict situations. We teach them to be mobile and full of ideas and welcoming. We see the education to be teacher as an education to give other people a hand. You have to be a humanist as a teacher, You need to be able to see strengths and potentials instead of weaknesses and bad manners. In the middle of a world where people are getting more and more fixed on reaching their own individual goals, we challenge the DNS students to look up from their bellybuttons and ask them to share their personal surplus with others that are in badly need it. And now let me let you in on a secret: By contributing with you skills for the benefir of others, by running that extra mile for someone, by actaully caring - your life becomes richer, fuller and more fun. And you will have many friends from all sorts of backgrounds. So - how do we actually put these ideas into practice at DNS? We have expanded DNS to include other programmes than the teacher education, training schools if you like. We call the different departments our heart chambers. The teacher training course is one heart chamber PTG - which stands for Practical Theoretical Basic Education in Danish is another. It is a programme for students aged 18+ who would like to take a HF exam which is Danish exam equivalent to German Abitur or UK A'levels. There is also the Vitality Centre which is a shorter term holiday and weekend centre where we make tailor made programmes for youngsters with speocal needs or other people who need special care "DNS - Day and Night Service" is another heartchamber activity where we solve emergency situaions of various kinds - a bit like a temping service. As a student at DNS you have ample opportunity to work in one of the other heart chambers, and in that way gain a lot of practical experience with a multitude og tasks that all have to do with teaching and social work. There is a tight cooperation between the regular teachers at PTG and the Vitality Centre and the DNS students. Sometimes the participation of the DNS students is planned far in advance, sometimes there are issues that need to be solved straight away, and the DNS students will step in and help where needed. For instance: The Vitality Center is a heart chamber who caters mostly for troubled youngsters who need to get away for a weekend or a holiday period because of various reasons - maybe they are at special school which closes during holidays, maybe they are "between placements" - maybe going from one foster family to.... something else that the local authorities have to figure out. Another example: Some of the youngsters at PTG have social problems.  Anybody who has been together with troubled kids knows that difficult situations can happen suddenly. Problems need to be solved immediately. Then some of the DNS students can come and help out - maybe go for a walk with someone, or help out with homework or whatever the problem is. More or less in a "big sister"  (or brother) role. So what is in it for the DNS student? Well, it is a very good training situation for the coming teacher to be able to handle unexpected situations, with the supervision and support from experienced teachers of course. It keeps you on your toes, it trains you to be flexible, creative in finding new solutions and maybe most importantly - to be part of a big "family" where you of course lend a helping hand when it is needed. Also - this close cooperation between the DNS students - the teachers to be - and a whole bunch of other people with various needs, and experienced teachers who always have the situation in hand - is a very good mix. Everyone wins. Everyone gets to know people they would normally not mix with. The social environment is great at DNS as a direct result of the cooperation between the heart chambers.

To the previous poster, here's an extract from the article if you even bothered reading, and I'd say that ADPP is as legitimate as it can be.

"A module on HIV/AIDS has been developed by ADPP for use in training teachers in 6 colleges in the country. Already 600 teachers have been trained, and are now using their knowledge and skills to reach people through their community work, and through clubs."

But I guess that's just bad, I mean, 600 teachers teaching >50 kids in a class about HIV/AIDS prevention is sooooooo bad, not to mention the clubs and voluntary work being done by those teachers and how many people they reach?

maybe Tvind tries to increase the % of HIV/AIDS cases? is it a conspiracy thought out by Amdi, is it Tvinds plan to give HIV/AIDS to the entire southern africa and take over everything, Is Tvind infecting their teachers with HIV/AIDS??

Get real man

that was HIV/AIDS... and "serving" in that last post.

I would like to thank the poster who so thoughtfully left us the information about the HIV?aids epidemic in Mozambique. It is a reminder to those of us who might be interestsed in teaching in the third world that those under our care would benefit from our legitimate teacher training garnered at legitimate educational institutions, and then finding placement with legitimate service organizations in order to be most effective with the populations we are servind.

I am very happy that Tvind goes out of Denmark. It is not at all an interesting country apart Ekstra Bladet and the Erotica Museum. I think that with this government of big fat gorillas no way for tvind to be there; they all will be in jail with that socialist ideas try to brainwash all that lovely kids all over denmark!

http://www.unicef.org/mozambique/educ_hiv.htm

Hi D,

Thanks for the link, but, you are shallow in your research, there are already at least 5 DRH schools outside Denmark and a new DNS is being developed already. Not exactly a new thing.

Hi Lars,

What is interesting though is that their PR and press coveragre in Africa on the whole is very good and very positive, looking over many of the African national papers web sites you can find positive articles and reports going back many years and covering right up to present day, could it be that the LG and volunteers are doing some good in Africa....now that'd make for worthless press in Europe wouldn't it...... I mean how can Ekstra Bladet sell papers that say "Tvind helps People", all time low sales.

Cheers

Chris

 

Hey Chris,

Unfortunatley the DRH is probably not going to exist at that time - Tvind is leaving Denmark, you see! *<:-D

http://www.eb.dk/VisArtikel.iasp?PageID=146162 (article in Danish)

News from Denmark: TG members that are being investigated by the authorities are leaving the country trying to avoid punishment for their acts. How heroic

Hi Chris, Yes, their PR is ridiculous but given the fact that the TG is full of intelligent hard-working people I have trouble believing that it is simply a bad decision. Actually it probably works as well as anything can in the face of all the problems. The last thing they want is any kind of light shining in on the organization.

I already have the URL for the CCTG guestbook but since they have removed the link from their homepage it is a guestbook that no one thinking about CCTG will ever visit or see. Too much free speech I guess.

Lars

Hi Lars,

People always quit from things, that's a fact of life, going to Africa is not an easy decision and the closer a person gets to going the more stress a person can feel if they are not 100% committed to that idea. Even going to Asia, once you start to build the bus interior and people realize that "gee I don't have my own private room" they will quit, they is no "I" on a bus or in Africa, it is all about the group.

Bak to the point though, so you'd have liked seen of discussed upfront before fund raising how the money raised was to be spent, rathe than post funding finding out that it was split over a range of items that were not all related to the project? I think that's where things vary from school to school and project to project, in DRH Hornsjo it was transparent on my course, in DRH Tvind becuase we were going to Asia it was even more so.

On a different tact, CCTG Guest Book :

http://two.guestbook.de/gb.cgi?gid=373406&prot=nqgdlw&

should get you in.

Yes I agree, as I said on the CCTG board where the LG falls flat on its face is PR. They could do them selves a lot more good if they handled the press and questions in a better way. The standoff, no comment, no answer, system they choose to use just doesn't earn them any brownie points.

Sadly posts like the two proceeding this one from supposed pupils ar Tvind don't help a great deal, that said the same one liners come from both sides of the fence.

At the end of the day, I don't agree with how everything is done at Tvind, but I can say that about any job I have had and any company/person I have worked with, BUT I had a great time, learnt a lot, saw a lot and would do it again if present circumstances allowed.....Having a wife, daughter, two dogs and a company to run doesn't allow :O). Though I hope to send my daughter to join a DRH for a year when she is old enough.

Cheers

Chris

Hei to you how havd been in tvind I am curently a "pupil" here. and my guess is that you where here during the get involved conferens, when there was a info meeting. let me just say to you. If you are not willing to take a hole lot of crap from A. lauzen, to go to africka. dont come here. besause it is the strong ones that leave and the weak willed how stays.

nn seems to know amdi, has even been in miami to meet him in the penthouse, taking a walk with the dogs or maybe having some discussions while playing some golf ? very very very sorry, but your statement shows, you do not know anything about tvind, humana, amdi, ... so why do you start talking such silly shit, go discuss football results, the elections, what so ever, ...

FYI, looks like the link on CCTG's homepage to their guestbook has been de-linked.

http://www.cctg.org/

Too much free speech out of the control of the TG, I guess.

Lars

Hi Chris, Sorry for losing you. No, actually my gripe isn't how the money is spent but the process through which the decision to spend it was made. Like I said we probably would have been willing to give the money to IICD (we were still really into the TG) but they never asked and told us that ALL the money raised was going to the project. Sounds like you had a better system in place for your group but people still quit.

I guess this sums up a lot of critique of the TG. There is a whole line about group decision making and working together but in the end, the TG members act on their own despite what has otherwise been said.

Cheers....Lars

 

 

In the

Hi Lars,

I'm a bit lost, so in essence your main beef is over the way the money raised was spent, i.e. it could have been better used, budgeted and controlled and you think that you as the team should have been control over the budget? If so I agree, our Asia team did just that and it does put a different perspective on fund raising when you know that you need X Krona to buy enough petrol to get to India and X Krona for food, X for Visas and so on. I think also it would make people have a more positive outlook on fund raising if they new exactly where what they raised went in their team, even if it was on rent, bills and so forth, at least you'd know.

To be honest it never bothered me, I never gave it much thought, I know members on both teams I worked had issues with it and it cuased some members to quit.

That said, I hate selling post cards, hate it more than anything else in the world, thankfully on my second team in Sweden I worked at a chicken farm cleaning the pens...boy I stank..but it was better than postcards :O)

Cheers

Chris

The TG and all the activities - especially HUMANA would be very good - IF Amdi had the moral to resign - or TG members had the courage to ask him and his body guards to go. He is a very, very sick, afraid and small minded man.nn.

MD,

Why do you assume that I am not using my "time and effort to do some good"? For all you know I could be Desmond Tutu... And if you truly believe that TvindAlert contributors don't have lives outside this forum (unlike Tvindies that have no personal lives), you are sadly mistaken.

You try and call humana a "cult" because there a group of people working together to do what they believe in. So if you call humana a "cult" then what is tvind alert? Would you call yourselfs a cult because you work for what you so called "believe in" you use your time and effort to write all theses things why dont you use this time and effort to do some good. MD

Hi Chris and Jimmy, Actually I was at IICD not CCTG or the Danish schools. I should also probably restate since I think that my "commitment" sentence is not conveying what I was trying to get at. Mea culpa...just the result of typing something off very quickly late at night.

I'm not actually critiquing IICD for lack of support in the field. We were working with another NGO at the time who was very well organized and provided the logistical support that we needed. (Just to prove my "toughness quotient" - always necessary to avoid being casted as lazy - I too lived bare to the bone in the field, where spending ten cents on a newspaper was something we split between three people and a coke was a once a month luxury)

My critique is less about support away from the US and more about the fund-raising/training period. The energy of the TG members was clearly on fund-raising and left little time for the so-called "training" offered and left us fairly unprepared.

In terms of specific funny dealings with money, (1) we were led to believe that the money we were raising was for our project and only later found out that it was going to IICD's costs. Not necessarily a bad thing because someone has to pay for electricity but my impression was that our fund was raided because of an IICD budget shortfall. Hell, we might of even volunteered the money but we were never asked. (2) Upon return to the US, the pot of money that we had been budgeted for traveling and doing presentations was cut in half making it very difficult to do. Maybe I won't get CCTG to give a day by day breakdown of expenses but I learned to distrust the statements of TG organizations around money.

I actually don't buy the idea that the TG is paranoid simply because everyone is out to get them. I extended them a lot of trust but the misused it. As you sow, so shall you reap.

Lars

 

THERE IS NOTHING MORE PATHETIC THAN A GROWN MAN OR WOMAN WHO IS SO INSECURE THAT HE OR SHE HAS TO JOIN A NEO-MAOIST CULT LIKE TVIND!

THERE IS NOTHING MORE PATHETIC THAN A GROWN MAN OR WOMAN WHO IS SO INSECURE THEY HE OR SHE HAS TO JOIN A NEO-MAOIST CULT LIKE TVIND!

THERE IS NOTHING MORE PATHETIC THAN A GROWN MAN OR WOMAN WHO IS SO INSECURE THEY HE OR SHE TO JOIN A NEO-MAOIST CULT LIKE TVIND!

Lars

"It is just when we had to deal with the TG that things broke down. We were committed but the lack of any support and a lot of funny dealings with money was the problem. In a very real sense, any commitment for our group dropped off once we out of the US and away from fund-raising. "

How much commitment does that show? as soon as you were "on your own" doing what you trained for all commitment dropped?

Funny dealings with money, please specify

When you had to deal with TG things broke down, yeah, sure. "TG made us loose the commitment" or something??

Jimmy

Hi Lars,

So you went to CCTG then, not the danish schools? I'll agree that while I enjoyed my time working at Tvind and on various projects they can be a bit "protective" of the information, paranoid maybe.... then again you're not paranoid if everyone really is out to get you are you, which for Tvind, would seem to be the case.

"any commitment for our group dropped off once we out of the US and away from fund-raising. " Where did your team go and who was your LG teacher on the team. When I went to Zambia, our LG teacher Jostein was a pillar of strength and organization. At the same time, yes we were pretty much, on our own resources 95% of the time, but so what, that was what we had trained for, we didn't go to Zambia to be put in a nice hotel and baby sat for 3 months. We lived out in the bush doing our work, showered when water was available and ate chicken 3 times a day 5 to 6 times a week. Cola when available was a luxury...and usually served at30 degrees C.

I know that you'd like CCTG to give you a dollar by dollar break down of where the money goes from fund raising and school fees etc. But you'll never get it, just like you'd never get it from any private institute.

cheers

Chris

I totally agree with Bonnie why write all of your stories on this page what are you looking for smpathy well your not going to get it. Everyone who joins the program knows what their getting into before they start every single person knows that they will have to put 100% in to get results as in every job. I have been in one of the schools for a while now and i have met lots of intresting people from all parts of the world and from all different social backgrounds but they all have one thing in common they want to make a difference in this cruel world. This is where humana comes in, humana gives the people this chance the ones who really want to make a difference. Before i started this program i was stuck in a dead end job doing the same thing everyday seeing the same people everyday. Then one day i was surfing the net and came across humana web site looked into it and made further inquires and well here i am today having the best time of my life and with the company of some of the best people i have met. So if anyone reading this page is still intrested in joining a project and lets face it whats stopping you go to www.humana.org and look further into it and if you want phone one of the schools they will be happy to answer any questions you have. MD

Hi Bonnie, I write what I do not because I found it "too hard" but because there are serious problems with the Tvind system. Just saying that people object didn't work hard enough is insulting to those of us who worked are hearts out and a dis-service to people who volunteer with the groups since it means basic problems never get addressed. This saddens me because it means many well-intentioned idealists (as I was) will continued to go through this highly manipulative organization.

Chris, Actually my group got along fairly well with each other. It is just when we had to deal with the TG that things broke down. We were committed but the lack of any support and a lot of funny dealings with money was the problem. In a very real sense, any commitment for our group dropped off once we out of the US and away from fund-raising.

Cheers....Lars

Hej Another Namless

>>Hej, Chris!

>>Better visit them than waiting for a posting. >>Why not find a phone number or ask to some of >>their home-pages? Posting in Tindalert is not a >>priority for many of TG members...

 

I think you should read my past posts, you have the wrong end of the stick.....

Cheers

Chris

Hi Bonnie

I agree, I think many of the volunteers who had a rough time, probably had poor team co-operation. If a team does not work well together then I expect the volunteers will have a very different experience, most of the teams gell together and work well, but some don't and then things don't go right, just like they wouldn't on any activity where team support and wellness are important.

At the end of the day a high level of commitment is required to succeed, some people only discover they can't give that commitment when it is too late.

Cheers

Chris

Hi everyone, my name is Bonnie, im from NZ & am a participant at CCTG. im very saddened to read that some people feel they had a bad experience at these schools or projects, but it makes me wonder is this just your way of not feeling as though you have just given up ,to write these awful stories ,is it a way to make yourself feel better about quitting something that you found too hard, it is so easy to blame someone else. I have been involved in training & voluntering at CCTG for the last 5 months now & not only have i Had a good time, i have worked hard (as promised before you arrive) & I have met wonderful people who really want to make a difference in this world! I have seen people come & then leave as they decided it is not for them (all have left on good terms & still keep in contact) & i have seen a team train & leave for mozambique, well prepared & happy. We get reports of how they are doing every couple of weeks, they are certainly making a difference & having a nice time. I hope that anyone who reads this site does not let it put them off, if you are concerned phone one of the schools,ask what questions you need to, talk to the participants,ask for me if you want, this is a wonderful place full of caring & intelligent people from all around the world of all different ages, it is an experience of a life time!!!!, dont let small minded slander put you off!!!

Some of the nicest people i have ever met do programs in humana. These are the type of people the worlds needs more of. People who arent selfish who put other people before themselves and actually care about the situation in the world today. MD

YOU PEOPLE WHO WRITE BAD THINGS ABOUT HUMANA SHOULD STOP COMPLAINING ABOUT THE PAST AND GET ON WITH THERE LIVES. IF YOU AIM IS TO SCARE AWAY THE PEOPLE WHO ARE INTRESTED IN JOINING HUMANA YOUR FAILING. THE PEOPLE WHO REALLY WANT TO JOIN HUMANA WILL JOIN NO MATTER WHAT YOU WRITE ON THIS WEB PAGE. THE PROJECT THAT THEY DO ARE BRILLIANT AND WORTH IT THEY HELP PEOPLE WHO MOST NEED IT. YEA YOU ALL COMPLAIN ABOUT "BUILDING, CLEANING AND FUNDRAISING". BUT THATS NOTHING COMPARED TO WHAT THE PEOPLE IN AFRICA HAVE TO GO THROUGH EVERYDAY. THE AIM OF HUMANA IS TO HELP THE PEOPLE WHO NEED IT THE MOST AND GIVE THEM A BETTER CHANCE AT A BASIC LIFE AND YES PEOPLE HAVE TO PUT A LOT IN TO GET A LITTLE OUT BUT AT THE END OF THE DAY ITS WELL WORTH IT. MD

Hej, Chris!

Better visit them than waiting for a posting. Why not find a phone number or ask to some of their home-pages? Posting in Tindalert is not a priority for many of TG members...

Hi Nameless ,

I read all the other posts which is why I find the most recent batch to be pretty dull. People such as Sigge and Lars have their own understanding of Tvind, UFF and LG which is what I'm interested in debating, not just reading thoughtless posts from both sides of the fence.

Added to that I'm still waiting to see a post from any one I knew at the many schools I studied and worked at in Tvind, be interesting to catch up on life.

Cheers

Chris

Hi Nameless ,

I read all the other posts which is why I find the most recent batch to be pretty dull. People such as Sigge and Lars have their own understanding of Tvind, UFF and LG which is what I'm interested in debating, not just reading thoughtless posts from both sides of the fence.

Added to that I'm still waiting to see a post from any one I knew at the many schools I studied and worked at in Tvind, be interesting to catch up on life.

Cheers

Chris

Hey! Tvind alert has no connections with neo nazis. If you read the Politiken today what they say is that Tvind alert receives economical suport from the Christian Democrats and some of the members of the secret police that investigated tvind in the 80's. LS

Hi, Chris! Don't be so sad; development is like these postings, downs and ups. I red this page, i'm reading the postings, and I think the last postings are reactions to the paternalistic postings that overflow these pages. Read all the postings, please, read the ones of Sigge and others for example. They show a lack of understanding of the schools movement, the projects movement and people in general. She sounds a mother plenty of reason in her speaches; they provoque reactions! This is not a page for revolutionaries turned up in house wifes! This is a page for people to react and not to pray. You have a page called News stories. Why come here to write the story of their so normal lifes? The world is changing fast, TG and Humana are inside this movement of change, like you and me. Using terms like propaganda, cult, sect to explain what we can't understand because of fast changes, is not the way. Personally I like the last postings; they are fresh, they are happy! They are not so boring has the postings of the serious people that try to monopolise this public space. Internet is like this, my dear Chris!...

 

Dissapointed, I had kind of expected from earlier posts some interesting discussions but it seems that folks from both side of the fence have nothing to do but propagate their own propaganda and meaningless conspiracies and so forth. Most people don't even read the previous posts before putting up their little bit of text, yes where are Sigge, Tomas, Steen and others?

Cheers

Chris

To be honest: I really have heard, that tvindalert has coonections to the neo nazi scene - from different sources, by the way.

Hello! Can you please update your home-page? How many were arrested after police found the secrets of tvind? And Amdi is he a world class golfer or a sunday one? And Amdis cats? Don't feel them alone in so luxurious and big apartment. And how many more left the schools? What is the difference between a sect and a cult? And is Tvindalert an anti-cult or an anti-sect? So many questions waiting answers. So many young people anguish without a confort word of you. And stories, mails and secrets from inside the schools? Please, please update your home-page! Thank you!

Sigge, where are you?! Please restaure a good level on this mess, with all your good old stories!

The previous sounds like part of the charter.

 

And how about a page "Alertvindalert"? with a link to Tvindalert. Sessions like "The last gossip", "Salsa Cult", "Tvindalert danish branch", "News from the Group"?

What about if we use Tvindalert tactics to spread a "truth" about Tvindalert?

Maybe we could start a debate in this statement:

I have "heard" that someone is investigating where Tvindalert is getting its money from and that it is claimed that they recieve support from people that have connections to the neo nazi movement.

Next could be that we get a journalist writing about it.

After that could we write: According to the independent paper of ?? (Whatever name) is there an private investigation in process to uncover Tvindalerts connection to right wing extremist groups.

Next would maybe be a statement from Tvindalert saying that they have no connection to the neo nazis and claim that it is "Tvind propaganda".

We could then maybe claim: Tvindalert have been in contact with a person, we do not wish to name, that has openly claimed that he think that foreigners in Denmark should be Danish or otherwies they can be kicked out. Some people, that we still wish to keep anonymous, say that the new "righ wing movement" in Europe is very closely related to what in Germany during the 30-40ties was call National Socialism=Nazism

Tvindalert can answer: We do not support that.

We could say. Oh no, one person listed here at the site and obviously a supporter of Tvindalert has, according to sources that wishes to be anonymous, been i frequent contact with people with extremist views and political agendas. Why do not Tvindalert admit their connection??? What are they hiding? We are fighting for a more transparent Tvindalert. Tvindalert is spreading propaganda to hide their real agenda.

This is off course a made up story and only an example on Tvindalert tactics.

 

 

This is a guestbook, but not the place for propaganda. We don't mind debate, but very long messages that are just propaganda will have to be deleted - there are plenty of DRH websites where you can find this.

 

Do you believe in the theory of conspiracy? Tvindalert is a branch of the secret danish police. Read with attention the names of people beyond the site, read with attention the reports of different danish newspapers, find out who was with the police when they broke in the property of members of TG. Ask where they live, what they make, where to find the dozens of thousand pound they need to link this page in Google and other search engines; donations? do they show their accounts, do they have a postal adress?...

The previous sounds like part of the charter.

Tvind alert express the power of democratisation of Internet. Everyone has a place and something to share with others. For us it is an important in one hand, an easy place to discover the history of a peculiar group - the teachers group - and in the other hand, the dicotomy of the western world: the good ones in one side and the bad ones in the other side. It is clear to understand - if you have a modern perspective of the world - that teachers group is a different reality of humana people to people. Teacher group has different model of development than humana people to people. The first points towards the realisation of the individual in a common perspective, the second points towards the realisation of the aspiration of comunities via the empowerment of individuals. It is what it is, and the tone xenofhobe of tvindalert contributions is also clear to the ones that study development. This doesn't take away the merit that tvindalert has - to make a chronology of an important reality in the world today: that development can be done by any person.

 

NB : there are at least two ships missing off your list, both were used by Red House School, one was based in the Caribbean and the other moored locally and used for teaching sailing to the students prior to their sailing in the Caribbean. The boat in England was in excellent condition and a beautiful boat, the one in the Caribbean I never saw as I moved from Red House to DRH Hornsjo shortly before my class went there.

Cheers

Chris

Hi Steen

If you still visit this site I was wondering were you at Red House when I was there, I seem to recollect that you were, but left when Winestead opened, though I could swear it was called White Haven when it first opened... long time ago.

Cheers

Chris

Hi All

What I find most interesting is the perception by the complaint letters is that the whole of the LG is run with the concept of ripping people off. Have any of you ever seen the break down on what happens when you donate one pound to any aid organization, of where that money actually goes and how much of it ever gets to the thing you think you are aiding? I'll have to dig it up, it makes for interesting reading and makes you think twice before giving to charity. What I liked about Tvind was the ideal that "anyone" can make a difference and volunteer, AND see exactly what happens to the clothes that are donated and so forth.

I was on the first Norwegian team to go to Zambia, working in Monze to build a tree nursery, our education in Norway was very much "self planned" and it worked very well, learning the history of Africa, Zambia, Tree agriculture, errosion effects and so on, even some of the local language which ended being more useful as entertainment in Zambia than for communication, our LG teacher Jostein was excellent, I learnt and owe him a lot. In Zambia will built what at that time was considered one of the best tree nurseries in Zambia, government officials from all over the country flocked to the opening ceremony to "take credit" and to our utter shock and my total pissed off horror they eventually gave all the credit to The Norwegian Aid Org NORAID and not UFF, having seen the NORAID nursery first hand all I can say was "glad they didn't have anything to do with our work".

Summary, while things do go wrong, Tvind/UFF/Humana etc all have a common goal to help people, sure they have ideals that I didn't agree with, their complete lack of respect for "personal belongings" really irritated me.

But for every negative thing I saw, or heard I can merrily counter with many more positive things, be it from a Small School, Efterskole, Travelling High School or DNS.

Cheers

Chris khunkwai@somtam.com

Nov 23rd 2001

Hello Sigge

Thanks for your straight forward and honest answer. Even though I don't agree with some of the things you say about TG do I now understand much better where you are coming from. Thanks I wish you the best!

Tomas

 

Hi! Did you red the bonga bonga story? Great staff, ahn?! It is true that the charter of this group is like this? There is any possibility of buying that book? Can any of you folks give me a tip where to find it? m74gardner@excite.uk

Date : Nov 22nd 2001

Hi All

Wow interesting site, I was a voluteer (not part of the LG/TG but as a pocket money paid volunteer)at Tvind, I started at Red House, was a student at DRH Hornsjo, spent a month at DNS, taught at DIE Tvind and was a student at DRH Tvind. During which time I travelled the world, saw and did some amazing things and made many many good friends...this was all back in 1988 through 1992... now a days I run a company in Thailand, which is funny becuase the day they finally kicked me out of Tvind Anna Laursen asked me not to go to Thailand when I told her I was going there, funny enough in 1995 when I enquired about going back to Tvind as a volunteer again I was accepted but eventually didn't go as my then girlfriend was against the idea...oh how life could have been very different.

I have read every story on this site from ex students and teachers and a lot of it has a lot of truth behind it, and I say this while saying in the same breath, DAMN I had a good time at Tvind, Maybe I didn't love every minute but it was one hell of a ride and an education available no where else on Earth, my work in Zambia was great, my bus trip to India and Bangladesh was amazing and the sports days were just awesome, yea I almost froze to death hitch hiking in Sweden, went insane selling post cards in Finland and found the budget for fund razing and school fees to be a tad vague (is that old nuclear bunker still in use).

Some of longest friends are ex Tvind buddies, one of whom is a total avid hater of Tvind and is a fan of this site.

All said an done, yes Tvind has some weird stuff going on so does Greenpeace.

Was I brain washed, no I was kicked out of Tvind, when I left Red House to go to DRH in Hornsjo one of my students (Maria) said "please don't even change", to which a LG teacher said "Of course he will", not quite the road that was planned out for me.

Tvind taught me many things (even danish and norwegian as a side effect), and for that I will always be very grateful. Would I go back..... would they let me might be a better question.

Cheers

Chris khunkwai@somtam.com

About why to write in this guest book

I dont use the word evil about anything. Not even TG. Many people that I know were in the Teachers Group were OK. Even though one didnt really get to know them. We seldom talked about ourselves or our families or life before. We were not in focus as individuals. The work was of overall importance.

I dont consider those TG-members I knew as stupid or non-intelligent. Not more or less than those I have met before and after TG. Even intelligent people can become members of a cult. It has nothing to do with intelligence. A cult is not introducing itself as a cult. I dont believe anybody would consciously start up a career as a sect-leader. Neither would there be so many students if the brochure would say: Hi, welcome to our cult. The projects in Africa need your contribution. We need all your time, money and your whole life. Forget about friends and family we will become your new family. Dont worry if you some day realize you have been a cult-member you are not less intelligent because of that. When can one be totally sure that the people you trust actually are worth the trust?

Do you think that I am fighting you? Actually I am not using so much time and energy to combat you. I just write in this guest book sometimes. Thats about it. I have a life to live you know. And why I am writing at all I have explained. I was not aware of being in a cult when I was in TG. I pushed that kind of thoughts away. (There were so much other things to do like morning cleaningJ). Manipulation and misuse of peoples goodwill is something that I am against. Thats why.

You say that you dont pray to a guru. Who has said you have to PRAY to a guru? I have never claimed that people are praying in such a pragmatic environment as the Teachers Group. My experience is the opposite: Religious people were questioned. My tactics is not to repeat Tvind is bad until it becomes a truth itself. (But I do remember that this is how we explained to each other why there always were those newspaper articles making our life difficult). I have no tactics at all. I just write what I think about things.

I need no justifications whatsoever. I am not unhappy with my years in TG now that I am out. Some fewer years would have been enough, though. I am not bitter I have also good memories. And I think that after some very troublesome years after TG when I had to let it sink in that I had been wrong, I have learnt a lot from the experience. (Even though it is not exactly what you would write about in your pamphlet either).

I dont get paid. Who would pay me to write in a guest book? I am very content with my life, I dont feel like writing here is filling much more space in my life than writing something else. TG is not THAT interesting. Yes, what I write is honestly what I think. But please, dont bother being sad on my behalf. It would be in vain, as I am happy with my life. And I dont think I am doing less good today than in the teachers group. Actually the opposite.

I agree with Lars who appreciated you taking part in the discussion.

Sigge

About why to write in this guest book

I dont use the word evil about anything. Not even TG. Many people that I know were in the Teachers Group were OK. Even though one didnt really get to know them. We seldom talked about ourselves or our families or life before. We were not in focus as individuals. The work was of overall importance.

I dont consider those TG-members I knew as stupid or non-intelligent. Not more or less than those I have met before and after TG. Even intelligent people can become members of a cult. It has nothing to do with intelligence. A cult is not introducing itself as a cult. I dont believe anybody would consciously start up a career as a sect-leader. Neither would there be so many students if the brochure would say: Hi, welcome to our cult. The projects in Africa need your contribution. We need all your time, money and your whole life. Forget about friends and family we will become your new family. Dont worry if you some day realize you have been a cult-member you are not less intelligent because of that. When can one be totally sure that the people you trust actually are worth the trust?

Do you think that I am fighting you? Actually I am not using so much time and energy to combat you. I just write in this guest book sometimes. Thats about it. I have a life to live you know. And why I am writing at all I have explained. I was not aware of being in a cult when I was in TG. I pushed that kind of thoughts away. (There were so much other things to do like morning cleaningJ). Manipulation and misuse of peoples goodwill is something that I am against. Thats why.

You say that you dont pray to a guru. Who has said you have to PRAY to a guru? I have never claimed that people are praying in such a pragmatic environment as the Teachers Group. My experience is the opposite: Religious people were questioned. My tactics is not to repeat Tvind is bad until it becomes a truth itself. (But I do remember that this is how we explained to each other why there always were those newspaper articles making our life difficult). I have no tactics at all. I just write what I think about things.

I need no justifications whatsoever. I am not unhappy with my years in TG now that I am out. Some fewer years would have been enough, though. I am not bitter I have also good memories. And I think that after some very troublesome years after TG when I had to let it sink in that I had been wrong, I have learnt a lot from the experience. (Even though it is not exactly what you would write about in your pamphlet either).

I dont get paid. Who would pay me to write in a guest book? I am very content with my life, I dont feel like writing here is filling much more space in my life than writing something else. TG is not THAT interesting. Yes, what I write is honestly what I think. But please, dont bother being sad on my behalf. It would be in vain, as I am happy with my life. And I dont think I am doing less good today than in the teachers group. Actually the opposite.

I agree with Lars who appreciated you taking part in the discussion.

Sigge

Tomas, what is the connection between Tvind and Humana? Was Humana founded by Tvind, or did Humana start Tvind?

The best evidence of the work done are the results. Check out www.humana.org

"If you're not careful the media will have you hating the people who are being oppressed, and loving the people who are doing the oppressing" -Malcolm X

I'am a member of TG. We got proff that we are doing good things. Unfortunably we got mugged by som unpleasent, nicely dressed, well educated assholes, with know sens of humor, who stole the evidence. Sorry!

Why do you say all these things about humana have you a little thing called "proof" to back these lies up with. Of course some people might have had a bad experience but thats only the small minority how about the majority who have a great time and get the most out of it these are the real people that humana is made of.

By MD

Hi Tomas, A couple quick points and then some questions (1) Yes Laszlo mentioned both lack of Internet access and sleeping on the floor. However, you are picking out two sentences out of several pages in which he reports lack of organization, lying, little training, a court investigation, etc. etc. etc. You're simply taking a cheap shot and ignoring the largely issue.

(2) I'm glad that you are participating in this forum so activily and promote it. It certainly makes for more interesting discussions.

Questions (1) Are you saying that Morgens Amdi Peterson is in no way associated with the Teacher's Group? Are you simply calling Steen's report a lie?

(2) Just out of curiosity Who owns the CCTG building? I assume that it is the Teacher's Group (or a corporate identity) but often this has been something that has not been admitted. I guessing that you see no reason not to say this.

Regards....Lars

To Sigge To All reading

What is life about? In my opinion is it to get most out of it now when we have the opportunity to live and a lot of choices for how we can live it.

Many people have had an extraordinay time being for example a Development Instructor in Africa, project leader in Humana a teacher at One World Volunteer Institute in Norway and so on. MANY people have been Development Instructors and many people has also joined the TG. Some people do it for shorter time and others do it for longer time. Many have enjoyed the time even though that they decided that 1,2,3 or more years was enough and started with something else. I have friends that joined the TG and after a while decided to stop. They do not say that the Development instructor program is a bad thing or that TG is a bad thing. They liked it, but wanted to do something different. Life is filled of choices.

I believe that the number of people that has joined the Development Instructor program is something like 5000? Right? Out of them some have quit. Why? I think it is for many reasons. Some because it was too hard, others have quit cause of other personal reasons, others have quit cause they didn't like the way it was set up or they didn't like their teacher etc etc. Out of the people that have quit do many not have anything "againts" for example the One World Volunteer Institute or TG, but is also some that thought it was "so bad and evil" that they have decided to "fight" it. The same counts for the ones that have joined and quit the TG.

Now, what I am wondering is why these "really unsatisfied people" have such an ambition to say that the people that liked the experiences and still do are actually stupid and haven't "understood"?? We are in their eyes both brainwashed, a cult and thiefs.

What is it that is driving you Sigge??

Here at Tvindalert do you read comments about that there is no transparency and that economy is a secret. That is certainly a big lie. Just take a visit to IICD:s website and you can see their economical results online. This from an account that yearly is audited by a Independent public Auditer. Here at Tvindalert you read the money raised for Humana is not used for the purpose. Also someting that certainly is a lie. Just visit www.humana.org and see how many projects there are. Here at Tvindalert can you read that it is a certain guru that decides everything and that for example me, I am a "loyale cultmember". I do not pray do a Guru and sacfrice myself for a higher aim. Furthe do I think that i am at least a bit intelligent. Maybe you people lying know that? Maybe you have chosen a "a tactic" to say Tvind, bad,Tvind, bad, Tvind, bad so many times so that people starts believing it?.

I can understand some of the stories for ex Lazaros about their time in South Africa. It gives me a clear picture and have a bit of truth in it. Even though he thought it was really bad that they only had internet for 2 hours a day and that they had to sleep on madrasses. I don't think that is bad at all!!!!! (It is more then I and others here at CCTG have had the last year.) But in one way does it clearly explain (among other things) that even if we claim that the development instructor program is something that everyone can participate in might it not be a program for everyone.

What I have more difficulties in understanding is that some persons uses lies to achieve what they want. And it is no limit to what they can write and lie about!!!

Maybe they wish to achive a justifcation for themselves? Maybe they have a empty space that they need to fill out? Maybe they get paid to do so by some that love to have a certain picture or make up a story? Maybe it is that they truly believe what they write? Something that makes me sad on their behalfs.....

Regardless. I think this Tvindalert site is an interesting phenomenom. A bit annoying at times but really interesting!!!! I really advice people coming by to read some of the stories and also some of the comments in this guestbook.

I certainly do not know if sitting and writing this is a total waste of time. I might be classified as "brainwashed" in the next posting? But I must admit. I like discussing!!!

Tomas CCTG

About what a discussion is... This is a guest book, and of course you don't have to feel pressed to answer my questions as you consider them stupid. Just to clarify something: A discussion doesn't necessarily mean that the other part automatically changes opinions. I haven't posted the things here to try to convince you in person that TG is bad. If you are running a school, you have probably been in TG a long time. I have no illusions of trying to "save" you from TG by provoking you on this site.

I believe that each one of us has got a responsibility of ones own life. It is up to each one to choose to get involved with TG. But what I think - and there you of course cannot think like that, you would be needed to take the consequenses of living on a lie - is that here people are not told the truth. I mean, you denied in your latest answer that there would be a one leader in TG.!!! It is a lie!

The whole thing is run by good people's eagerness to do good. They are used and put behind the light. As many of old TG-members are able to talk about, after a longer or shorter time passed. And I think that to fool people is a bad thing and there those getting involved know too little to be able to judge what they actually are involving themselves in.

Yes you ar right, you cannot change my mind. To see your defencive comments make me to see even more clearly how I thought about things myself before and what I have understood afterwards. It has been a long way. You are probably working a lot and beliveing a lot in what you do. Well, if it was that you guys are not trying to get so much more people "captured" I wouldn't mind. I understand that you do it 'cause you think it is the best thing in the world to be in TG. Exactly as Jehovas think about their group and Scientology-church about themselves. TG is a sect. Maybe you think it is a good thing. I just cannot agree on that.

Sigge

 

 

 

The previous sounds like part of the charter.

Small, small, so small, bonga bonga and his snails perhaps some personals, small, small, so small, bonga, bonga and his snails, its a cult, sigge or taliban? guru, gugu dada, small, small, so small, bonga, bonga and his snails... it is a man, it is a stone? people leaving, people coming, bonga, bonga and his snails, democracy, shopping center and big bellies, reason, moralisms and rice for the people, serious people, personnals people, would you like people for dinner? bonga, bonga and his snails tg gt mini maxi and his stones... i wanna muschrooms, diet, miami beach, and bonga bonga and its heroes!

It is my modest contribution for the endless discussion: it is the sun that evolves around us or the talibans playing around?

Bonga, bonga, you don't go anywhere, dear tvind alert, development is like a sea, powerfull, floading new light in your stone heart; you've loose the train, you were waiting and voila you are a crystal! Bonga, bonga, you've lost the smile, you've lost your soul, old, so old, so sad too... Never mind - the world is a supermarket; your's a small, very small one. Bonga, bonga, it is so good to see others dying in the excrements of a tedious life... tvind alert so sorry, you've lost the train of life!

The whole story is never told about anything, but a very significant part of the Tvind story is about manipulation, fraud, blackmail, decadence, power abuse and exploitation, the list goes on...

How does the previous poster explain how dozens of people, from all around the world, the vast majority of whom have never met each other, would be able to make up stories that are nearly identical? And why would we be wasting our time being involved with this website if we were not incensed about our experiences with Tvind?

ALERT ALERT!!!

This site is filled with lies. The postings, letters and articles DO NOT TELL THE WHOLE STORY!!!!

For more relevant information visit: www.humana.org or www.drh-movement.org

Hello Sigge.

Regarding your comments.

1. I dont see what it is I am supposed to leave "unsaid". If it is that TG has a hidden agenda and that TG is dictatorical runned by a mony making guru, cant i say it.I would be lying cause that is not how it is.

2. You asked for that we are honest about our connections to Humana People to people. I have never thought that was a secret or that we are disshonest, and have no problems tell you thats it.

3. Then tell the project leaders you are "critical" about and don't bother me about it. I have answered your question.

4. I deliberatly didn't not copy this from our pamphlet but since I wrote the pamphlet am I quite sure that some of the wording are the same. What is wrong with that? Call it propaganda or whatever you think. I am telling my opinion. You cannot dissmis my opinion by claiming it propaganda

5 You claim that TG (what also means that I am) do not like democracy. That is not the case. On the other hand do I also tell you that somethings cannot be democratic. That is how I look upon democracy. Parlamentary or not.

6. I talk about who ever I want as much as i want.

Regarding the row of more questions you have would I like to say. I like my board and have a good cooperation with them. I make an economical status once a month but do not have any report system. It is not a single person that has much more power then the other.

By the way Why do I have the obligation sitting being open here to your extraordiary stupid comments and assumptions? None.

So, Sigge. Maybe this discussion is very essential for you. Even though that I do not get the impression of that it is a discussion. You have a very clear and straight opinion about TG and I believe that you will stick to that one regardless of what I answer. on the other hand am I a part of TG and is that cause i like it. Many of the opions you have do i not nor have i never experienced. You say that the TG is bad cause this and that. I say it is not like this and that and I like it. So you are also not very likely to change my opinion about TG. (seems to be the discussion in a nutshell) We certainly do not agree but i still wish you the best.

Tomas

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I meant of course board of directors. Not border of directors...:)

Sigge

To Tomas who gave some examples of the openness of TG.

I appreciate your attempt to answer. Here are my comments on them:

"1. Maybe where you have been has there not been a honesty about TG. Everyone at CCTG did now about the TG before even starting and during their considerations if they will start or not. It is even a part of our name Campus California TG. I have never thought that it was a secret and usually tells quite some about TG when I hold information meetings and prep. weekends."

Comment: Where I was the existence of TG was not a secret itself. How would it otherwise be possible to get people to join? I think it is quite an interesting gimmick though, to use it in the name of the school, that's at least something new. Of course TG people talk about TG to the students more interesting is WHAT THEY LEAVE UNSAID!! (See your own answer to my question number 6).

"2. Campus California TG do have some very strong ties to Humana. We work at their projects, cooperate around the Development Instructor program and they even support us economically."

Comment: Better crosscheck if you can write this. Many European Humana-leaders deny all cooperation with Tvind at all when asked from the public. They dont even answer if they are members of the teachers group. So, obviously they are lying then. Why do they not have any connections with Tvind between schools and the cloths business in Europe but they have some very strong ties in the US??? Are you aware that this what you wrote could be used against them when theyre asked about this? But I am glad to hear that you are honest about this anyway.

"3. Yes. Thats how it usually is. I also prefare that if you are teacher at CCTG you join the TG."

M-hm. YOU prefere! You are presenting this as your own idea! Funny. But on what are you answering? I didnt ask whether a project leader in Africa has to be in TG or not as I know that such is the case. I am just critical that some European projectleaders are lying about this to their staff and to the press. (The issue was openness, remember?)

"4.I usually tell all participants here at CCTG that I think they should join TG. I love it and am quite sure that several of them also would love it. I think that the Development Instructor program is a good program. When the 14 months period is over for the participants do I feel that the aim with running that program is filled. They have experienced and done development work. They have been living, learning and working together. They have been in Africa etc etc. I think it is a great program that many people can get a lot out of doing and that supports development. Also, do I invite people to join the TG after they are finished and off course i wish that more people would join up. For example here at CCTG do we need many more people in the future. I would also invite people that do not want to join TG to continue working with CCTG"

Comment: Did you copy this from your agitation-pamphlet-I feel like I have heard this before. And? Somehow I feel like whatever is asked it is again another opportunity to push the propagandatalk-button and let the tape run some more. It is called one-way-communication.

"5. You have obvisouly not been on so many different places in TG and meet so many people. I do think that democracy is present best politcal system that exists. Even though that democrazy in places of the world can work "oppressive" against a minority of people. But that is not the same that I think that we should vote about all things here at CCTG. We certainly do not vote about what should be included in the education, if we should clean in the morning or not, if we should learn Portuguese or not, if a building action is part of the program or not. Neither do we vote about if the Teachers should do his/her teaching work or not. They better do it, otherwise can they not be teachers. Further do i also believe that it very important to come to an "agreement". When we have dissagrements do I certainly not think that the best way to sort it out is to vote. I think it is better to discuss and try to find a solution that everybody is happy for. Sometimes that works, other times not."

Comment: Your description about democracy is interesting. Also your assumption that what I mean with democracy is parliamentary democracy in all occasions, sort of. What on earth makes you believe that? Do you SERIOUSLY believe that people usually vote, lets say in a hospital whether they should do their work or not? Whether to stop the bleeding or not? Have you ever visited a school where the students vote whether they are following the program or not?

No, thats what I thought you just say that a bit ironically. Dont you? As to ridicule my question about democracy a bit. That is what I meant by what I wrote about the ironical way of tackling the question of democracy in TG. Then you even in a later posting admit this discussion being stupid!! I think it is not stupid at all, it is very essential!

I think that you underestimate me and the question raised when you start talking about morning cleaning at your school!!! I am talking about where decisions are coming from! Who are sitting on the border of directors?? Do they actually have any power? Arent they quite powerless? Arent they all in TG, by the way? Who directs them? How much power does Amdi have in deciding the program of the school? Or if not Amdi, then the consortium (if that still is there) Bodil and company. How much do you report to them? How often? In what way? Why not be open about that, as you have such an open attitude at your school. Naming it TG an everythingBy the waydo you remember the country, DDR? Deutsche Demokratische Republik. Did the name make the country more democratic? Well, maybe the people inside thought even it was.

"6. I certainly do not have a rule not talking about anyone in the TG. But it is many people i do not talk much about."

Comment: Well, if you dont have, why do you think all others have? Dont tell me it is not like this. You must know it as well as everybody else in TG, those who are in still and those who have quit. Instead of answering the question you start talking about many people you dont talk about! My question is about Mogens Amdi Petersen! If you want to see upon yourself as one of the progressive TG-members, then why not walk the whole way and BE open, not only pretend!!

I see no fair play when the big boss can hide himeself from consequenses of his corruption and you guys just keep protecting him and start talking about morning cleaning when some serious questions are asked!

Sigge

 

 

 

 

Tp the previsous posting.

You do certainly not know what you are talking about....

Why is it that pro-tvind folks seems to think, that you can only help to create a better world if you are a member of a worldwide organisation with activities in the thierd world? Many of the new members of TG er from the former sovjet republic. Why did they leave all their country men and women behind, knowing that there are serious problems to be dealt with? I belive they do it because they want out. So who is it the tvind organisation is helping?

What do you suggest I do to change it? I am no longer involved with IICD/HUMANA. I'm no longer involved with development work as I am unsure that it is "right." I'm not making it my lifes mission to bring down Humana if that is what you mean.

If you are/were "outraged," why aren't you actively doing something to change the situation?

To the last poster, I had many reasons for volunteering in Zimbabwe. Some of those reasons were about me, my own needs, mental and spiritual growth. I don't see that as egotistical. I have to do what is best for, yes, ME. Volunteer work, in my opinion, is not about forgetting yourself and devoting every last breath to "save" some lowly country from further desolotion. I do not see anything wrong with someone who's been priveleged their whole life throwing themselves into a different culture where people are not as lucky as you and I. I consider that brave, and I'm proud I did it. I am a changed, more compassionate person because of my stay in Africa. And hopefully a little less "westernminded" than the next guy. Humana and their corruption has nothing to do with it. It was just a tool to get where I felt I needed to be. You can call that "ego-centeredness" if you want to. I would not call it nothing other than listening to my heart and fallowing where my soul leads me.

I was shocked, outraged, and cried every night once the true nature of Humana came to light for me. Again I will say, soon it became clear that I was there to volunteer and make real human connections with the people of Zimbabwe. I didn't want to "develop" Zimbabwe, the people of Zimbabwe are beautiful bright humans who taught me much more than I could ever teach them. The money I had payed to be there and raised on the streets of Manhatten and Boston not delivered to the higher ups of Humana, it went directly to the functions of IICD. I saw the bank statements myself. Maybe TG people gave up their salaries but that did not concern me. It was irrelevent to me.

To leave and go home once I had already established relationships and a project seemed terribly selfish of me. People were depending on me to finish what I started. I was depending on myself to stick it out. As for my prep work, you should not make assumptions. Visit the mountain yourself and you will find the warm, old souls who reside there and the lives we learned and led. One more thing, you should also not assume that I am or was not outraged. I, of course was for a period of time. But its been a year and a half now and I have allowed the anger to slip into something more positive for myself. It is not healthy for me to stay angry at Humana. We are all on this planet and in this together.

I want to thank the last poster for their 2 cents. I have been struggling with the concepts of "doing good," "development work," and "service," in light of the activities of the Tvind organization... seeing the people on the bottom of the organization, the "volunteers," or the TG members, defending so carefully, or angrily, or thoughtfully (as you did), their work with IICD/Humana...I know that many of you take the work you do or have done, very seriously, and I respect that. And I know that you are very well meaning.

I see, to an extent, though, a certain degree of Western ego-centeredness in your statements about the motivations for your trip: so YOU could learn "to have respect for another culture," so YOU could learn how lucky YOU are to have been born into a comfortable life," so YOU could sacrifice, so YOU could remember the many faces who smiled at YOU," so YOU could experience adventure travel with a "purpose." Maybe you haven't been around enough to realize this is the thinking of Western privilige. The motives you stated were not "for the people of Zimbabwe."

I doubt that your preparation work "on the mountain" encouraged any examination of the "whys" of your trip -- the Tvind people have too much of a need to keep you there, to keep up the "front" that they are doing beneficial work, so they can keep those dollars coming in...Your dollars, and the dollars you raised, all going into Amdi Petersen's big pot. YOU were the front, my friend... I feel they were exploiting you.

I am not making little of the work you did do, the friendships you made, your kindness or good intentions. I just think they were misplaced and misused. Your volunteer work, and definitely the money you paid and raised, could have had a much more beneficial effect if they had gone toward the work of an agency which has enough of an interest in the well being of the people of Zimbabwe to put its money where its mouth is, and to fully support and back up its workers .

I find it disconcerting that you are not OUTRAGED with what you saw with regard to the lack of financial support you got from Humana.

 

My 2 cents. I am a former IICD/Zimbabwe volunteer. I want to say that I had wonderful experiences on "the mountain" as we called it, in North Western Massachusetts. Many of my teammates and I are still in contact. I can not speak for them but I will say that we were a bit shocked by the way DAPP/Humana is run in Zimbabwe. Our projects had very little money, and we were told to look elseware for the funding of our projects. It was frustrating. But in the long run only one member of my 11 member team left early and went home. We all knew why we were there. For the people of Zimbabwe. To learn to have respect for a foreign culture. To realize how lucky we are to live in places where education, food, and shelter are easy to come by. I will never forget the many faces that smiled at me day after day during my 6 month adventure in Africa. It was well worth it for me. I do not agree with the way Humana is run. I visited the Humana headquarters up in the hills of Zimbabwe and saw it many times as I walked to catch a bus. I saw with my own eyes just how much money they have. I felt the frustration of this realization and tried to come to terms with the fact that I couldn't get any money for my own project in the village where I worked. But I stuck it out because I was there for a reason, one that goes beyond the corruption, and I wouldn't trade my experience for anything.

Bonnie, I actually find your contention that I quit because that I "found too hard" insulting. I suspect that most people here do as well.

I stayed for the entire program, worked incredibly hard and tried to do my best. Blaming people who critique the TG as lazy or quitters is an old trick. Just because we disagree with the TG does not mean we don't work hard.

I just think that it is a shame (almost a crime) that all this hard work and good will that comes from people gets abused by the TG.

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